Richard Rosner: Hello, everybody.. 

John Ruffini: Have to wait a few seconds. It says.

Richard Rosner: Yeah, we'll wait a couple minutes here and then we'll get lined up here. There we go. 

Richard Rosner: Hey everybody. Welcome to our session here. Excite Engage Employee. Can I say anymore? I'm here with my sidekick, John Ruffini, what's up, John? 

John Ruffini: How are you, Richard?

John Ruffini: Good afternoon, everybody. 

Richard Rosner: We have a lot to talk about today, man. And I've been pumped up all day for this session here.

John Ruffini: Doesn't take much to get Richard pumped up. If you don't know, you'll know that he is not caffeine. This is not any performance enhancing drugs. This is just Richard as Richard is high energy.

Richard Rosner: This is me in life, but I just want to tell everybody out there, shout out to everybody that spoke. So for the last two days, congratulations, man, you guys did a great job. I've been watching it all the last two days, so good stuff, John. 

Richard Rosner: So let's just jump into what we have to say in Excite Engage Employee.

Richard Rosner: We're just going to start with the exciting part and all I have to say. It's all about the tone. Am I right John? It's all about your voice tone right off the bat from the phone call to get somebody excited. I always say this, that first impressions are just like that with a job candidate. I mean, we have to connect with them right off the bat.

Richard Rosner: So even if you're having a bad day, I always say you gotta bring that power to every phone call, especially now, because this day and age, now when you get that candidate on the phone, if you lose them, what's the next one going to come by like tomorrow? You never know. 

John Ruffini: Couldn't be more accurate Richard.

John Ruffini: And today, as we all know, you know, our jobs, we are more needed now than ever, but our jobs are harder than ever because the battle for talent is incredible. Again, good time to be a recruiter, but there's a lot of people calling on the same candidates in a lot of instances. So to your point, Richard, you've got to, you know, I used to work with a guy that said, check yourself before you wreck yourself.

John Ruffini: You know, if your mind's not in the game, don't pick up that phone. Because if you don't have that energy and you don't believe in what you're conveying to that candidate, how you, how are you expecting them to get excited about working with you? And that's really, you know, you've got to get that excitement going.

John Ruffini: You've got to believe in yourself and you've got to bring it. Every phone call is always kept in mind. You know, we do a lot of the same things day in and day out. We make a lot of the same phone calls. We're pitching the same jobs, et cetera, et cetera. But when you get a candidate online for the first time you have to remember, it might be the 1000th time that you've made that call, but it's the first time they're hearing you.

John Ruffini: So you've got to bring it because for someone it's always going to be a first experience with you and that first impression is something you can't get back. 

Richard Rosner: Totally agree. And then the thing is, how do you get the candidate excited about everything else? I mean, like you said, John, you don't know what their day was like.

Richard Rosner: You don't know. I mean, most times if they don't have a job, they're upset, they're sad. You don't know what's going on in our life. That's why the key thing is you got to listen to the candidate. I always say this right off the bat. You know, many people just jump into it and say, Hey, this is the job we have.

Richard Rosner: Maybe they can't work. Only two days a week. We got to listen to the candidate. I think that's the number one thing, John, 

John Ruffini: The days of me calling you Richard as a recruiter and saying, Hey, Richard saw your resume. I've got a job that you're a perfect fit for. They are long gone. You know, that just, you can't do that paper to paper skills matching for the recruiters that are still doing that.

John Ruffini: Selfishly, I say, keep doing it because it makes my job a little bit easier. But you know, realistically, to your point, it's all about getting to know the candidate as a person. And that's part that's a combination of the engagement and the excitement, because you want to be excited to get to know them so that you can figure out what can I offer you and what will you enjoy most versus just, Hey, here's a job I got, can you fit it or not?

John Ruffini: And it has to be less transactional and more of a relationship. 

Richard Rosner: Exactly. And I always say this, I don't interview anybody. It's a coffee chat or beer chat right off the bat. I'd tell them that. And it's like, you break that ice. And this is one thing that I have to deal with everybody, John it's okay for them to say, no, they're not ready.

Richard Rosner: Absolutely not unemployment. There's still, you know, getting yourself settled somewhere. It's okay. Because they can always come back to us. And I think that's the biggest thing is as a recruiter, we don't want to hear the word. No, but it's okay. I, if I am you, it's fine. It's okay. 

John Ruffini: You'd rather hear a no than you'd rather hear a no than not hear anything.

John Ruffini: Right. So to your point, you know, sometimes we have to give them permission to say no and let them know that it's okay. To your point. Yeah. It's okay. You know what we're offering might not be right for that candidate at that point in their life or career. And that's okay. We have to understand that.

John Ruffini: And that comes by understanding. Who that person is and where they are in life right now and why it's not right at the moment so they can come back. We can keep it to ourselves. We've got to keep that communication going, but we might not play some today. Think about how many people you call. You don't make a recruit on every call.

John Ruffini: You don't make a placement on every recruit. So it's all about, you know, being patient and working on their timetable and recognizing when it's right to jump at an opportunity based on what they're looking for. 

Richard Rosner: So true. And the big thing is never pressure a candidate to take a job. I see this happen all the time.

Richard Rosner: We ever pressured them. If they're not ready, I run it. And like I say, once again, kind of ties into no it's okay. You know don't pressure them 

John Ruffini: Been there, done it. It doesn't end well, 

Richard Rosner: And guess what happens. You get more gray in your hair, right? And then, you know what? I always like to use names, you know, I join, it's all about being part of your workforce, family, you know, whatever you got to say, you'll bring them, then they are your peach.

Richard Rosner: I want to say, you know, so at the end of the day, you know, just, they're not a candidate, they're part of your family because without the candidate, we don't have a staffing firm, a recruiting firm. 

John Ruffini: You're absolutely right. Again, we've got to look at them more than just transactions, more than just walking commissions and whether you're doing contract staffing or direct hire placement, you know, the difference, okay.

John Ruffini: Contract staffing, they're literally on your payroll. So they are your physical employees. You're cutting them a check every week, direct tire. They might never be on your payroll, so to speak, but you still need to keep that relationship because that candidate down the road is a referral source, a future hiring manager to get more business out of, or as another future candidate when they make their next job move.

John Ruffini: So you've got to treat them as if they're a part of your network in the closest sense of the work. 

Richard Rosner: Exactly and they are, I'm tying it to my next one. I'm not a recruiter. I'm a job agent. Right? I always joke. I always say I'm Jerry Maguire. Show me the money, show me the job. But guess what I say, I don't recruit anybody.

Richard Rosner: I represent the candidate. And when you say you represent them, totally takes everything out. You're totally different than everybody else. Trust me, everybody out there. If you start using that word that I represent the candidate and you tell them that. They're gonna fall in love with you just like that. What do you think? John? Little lingo words like that. 

John Ruffini: No it's you know, the market evolves, right? And we go through trends. So there are trends where the client has the upper hand and you're literally, you're working for the client. And in our business, the client pretty much pays. I mean, the client pays our fees.

John Ruffini: So do we work for the client? It's that whole realtor analogy, which I hate, but it's kind of similar. Yes. The client pays our fees and we work for the client. So we have to build that relationship. But in today's market, the candidate is in control. So you have to represent the candidate. And again, it's all about.

John Ruffini: When you say represent them, you want to introduce them to opportunities that make sense for them in their career and offer what they're looking for. Hopefully that falls in line with what your clients are looking for as well. And you've got to bring that union together and show both why they're both good for each other, but you're absolutely right.

John Ruffini: We do. As recruiters, we represent both sides of the deal. We get paid by one side of the deal, but we have to represent and understand and get a deep understanding of both sides of the equation. 

Richard Rosner: Exactly. And in this day and age, it's all about the candidate. I mean, any client will love you. If you say I got all these candidates are part of my family and I need to put them to work.

Richard Rosner: I mean, that's work that it's at these days and then capturing your attention, John, this is what they always say. So many candidates get so bored. You know, they're like, oh, I'm just going through the same hiring, hiring process. We gotta make it fun. We gotta make it easy, which we'll talk about a little bit later, but we have to make it very easy and simple.

John Ruffini: We do, we absolutely do. It's gotta be enjoyable, you know, the candidate experience is more in the forefront now than ever before. And it comes from that first initial interaction that you have with a candidate. It also transcends recruiters. So it's the experience we have with them, but then it's also the experience that they have with our client.

John Ruffini: So as recruiters we find ourselves, yes we need to give them a good experience with us as the recruiter, but then we've got to be consultative to our clients, kind of educating them on what they have to do in that part of the process to compete for that talent. It's interesting. We have our first question, Richard, can I interrupt and share it?

Richard Rosner: Go for it.

John Ruffini: So, Matthew, thanks for the question. Matthew asked in that line of thought, I guess, what we were thinking of as far as representing the candidate, representing the client, how do you approach your client and let them know that they're the silver medalist to the gold medalist candidate and I'm assuming.

John Ruffini: What do you do when you have a client that wants an A talent, but really they're only going to get what we consider B talent, or maybe they're not going to get their top choice, but they're going to get their second choice. Matthew, if you can type a yes or no, is that what we're tying, what we're trying to talk about?

John Ruffini: And I just want to make sure I clarify what you're looking for there. 

Richard Rosner: And real quick about that is we have to educate the client and tell them that there's potential. Everybody has potential and anything you do in life. And I think that's what we have to educate the client

John Ruffini: Well, and it's our job to be consultative.

John Ruffini: Do you know, the short, no silver bullet thing, both scenarios happen. You're absolutely right. So, Matthew, I think it's important that we have transparent communication and the clients that appreciate that will be the clients that really want to work with you and value your services. As a recruiter, as recruiters, we have the opportunity to be more than just a candidate source.

John Ruffini: The truth is that the best clients that we work with, partner with us, not just for industry knowledge, industry trends, we're in the market every day. So we have an opportunity to provide them real life data, as far as, Hey, here's, what's going on. Here's what the market's paying. Here's how you can position yourself better.

John Ruffini: Here's why you might not be able to get the type of person you're looking for now, but oh, by the way, do you really need that type of person? You know, when you take a job order, don't be an order taker. Don't be a yes person. Take the opportunity to question why certain skills are required and why they're not, what is the job?

John Ruffini: Do they really need that? Or can they learn it? So it's a way to educate your clients. They might think they need one type of person. After the conversation with the recruiter, they might realize that they've opened up a larger candidate pool because they didn't realize what they could teach and train and get into the job.

John Ruffini: So hopefully that provides some insight to your question. 

Richard Rosner: Exactly John, I'm gonna elaborate on that. It's a bucket client relationship too. You have to build trust with them. You just roll in and say this, you get to talk to it and put strategy, put it down on paper, instead of tell them why your thoughts are the way.

Richard Rosner: And I think it works out that way. You just can't go in and say, I think this candidate is the best one. You have to put down. Why? And I always say that you have to back your stuff with. 

John Ruffini: Totally. And anytime you can support it with data you can't go wrong, data doesn't lie. So anytime you can, you know, we do that a lot with our clients.

John Ruffini: We bring them, we don't want to just go and ask for higher rates. We bring them real life, examples and data as to, Hey, here's what we've learned in the marketplace. And here's what your competitors are paying. And this is where we got this information. So we need to be competitive or we're losing out on talent because our rates are not competitive.

John Ruffini: If you just go and ask for more money without explaining the why to your point, Richard, then it's not as impactful is if you bring hardcore data from the market explaining, Hey, don't take my word for it. This is what the numbers say 

Richard Rosner: So now you're ready for this, John. It's the thinking process.

Richard Rosner: I always say these four thinking processes. I'm telling you they work all the time. Here we go. The first one struggles, eco strategy. So during COVID and everything else going on, now, you have struggles. Sit back, act like you're Tom Brady or whoever you are. And put a strategy together. It works every time with candidates and clients, just like we talked about now.

Richard Rosner: Now there's a strategy for every struggle that can be overcome. What do you think, John? 

John Ruffini: Totally. I agree. You know, some of the best innovations have come through adversity and we've seen it through the last 18, 24 months with COVID. There's been so many new things that have launched that may not have ever come off the ground.

John Ruffini: So many more people are taking initiative. So you're absolutely right. Embrace the struggle. Whenever you come into a challenge or a difficulty in life, embrace it, know that there's something to learn and gain from it and move forward. 

Richard Rosner: Perfect. The next one, I love this one adapter equals achieve. We have to adapt to different situations.

Richard Rosner: Now the staffing industry is changing. We adapt, we'll achieve. So everything's IT. Everything's Tech. Everything's something else we'll talk about later about the apps on the phone, you got to adapt and then you will achieve. Am I right? 

John Ruffini: A hundred percent, you know, you have to embrace change. If there's one thing that we can count on in life it's change.

John Ruffini: And to, you know, in our industry it is no different. It evolves and you have to adapt or get left behind the way that we recruited 5, 10 years ago, isn't as effective. You can't just say, all right, what got you here? Won't get you there. So you've got to adapt and leverage things that will help you continue to maintain an edge and be current.

Richard Rosner: Exactly. And that leads into the next one. You'll miss summing it up. Challenges equals change. When you have a challenge, you got to change and that's anything in life. Almost. These are like life principles that we use in the staffing industry every day. And I believe in this, like, seriously, you've got a challenge.

Richard Rosner: Just change it. We change everything. Right? My art is different from 20 years ago. John was, I really think that we are changing in this industry so fast. Yeah, 

John Ruffini: Well and let's be honest. Most of us got into this industry by accident number one, and one of the reasons we love it, in addition to all the benefits we provide to the people we serve, is that no two days are alike and no two conversations are alike.

John Ruffini: So there's always change. There's always a new change. There's always a new objection. There's always a new challenge on the client end. So you've got to embrace that change. That's part of the beauty of the recruiting and staffing world is it's constantly changing. 

Richard Rosner: Exactly. And my favorite one, I mean, this is all me all the time.

Richard Rosner: If anybody sees me out there, I will post all of them. Giving equals growth and love. That is all aspects of life. You know what, the first thing in our industry don't think about the money thing. Think about giving back the growth that will come and professional personal and, you know, in other ways. 

John Ruffini: What you put out there does come back often multifold. You don't know when it's going to come back, but it will come back. I, you know, somebody once said this phrase and I've stolen it and I use it a lot. We do unselfish things for selfish reasons, and it's so true, you know, there've been plenty of times, whereas recruiters, we do a lot of things to help out people.

John Ruffini: And we're not going to get any immediate compensation for that, but it's the right thing to do down the road. You never know when, but that does come back to you and you're like, oh, wow. Okay, good karma. I put stuff out there. It comes back. You put bad stuff out there. News flash. That's going to come back.

John Ruffini: Think about it before you do it.

Richard Rosner: Given it's always any, anything, I mean, anything, little that you have to do in life, just give the growth will come trust me. And in all aspects I love that. 

John Ruffini: And that gets back to Richard. You're really big on, on immersing yourself in the community that you recruit in and you give so much back to the communities.

John Ruffini: Again, those things you do it willingly, and it's the type of giving back and paying it forward. And that also builds currency for you in those marketplaces, because not only are you seen as someone who can deliver talent, but you're also seen as someone who is actively involved in the community that your businesses work in.

John Ruffini: And I think that's also something that with COVID people pull back a little bit, but now that we're, you know, somewhat, I don't want to say coming out of it because it's still out there, you gotta be safe and you gotta be smart, but that visibility and giving back there are many ways to do it. I think you're great at it in the sense that you're very visible, both online, but also physically in the community.

Richard Rosner: Well, thank you, john. It's a lifestyle. I really say this to everybody out there. If you're in a staffing industry it's our lifestyle. I mean, 24 7. We're a people person business. 

John Ruffini: So that's very true. 

Richard Rosner: Hey, thank you for that call, man. I appreciate it. All right. Now, it's the fun part. Are you ready for this?

Richard Rosner: Capturing a job site as attention. We talked about that briefly. Now we're going to deep dive into John. Okay. So I'm going to tell everybody out there now hiring is overplayed so much. You'll never see me on content, but now I'm hiring out there.

John Ruffini: It's I can't just stick a sign in the window now, hiring. I mean, drawing talent. 

Richard Rosner: Really 

John Ruffini: I'm joking.

Richard Rosner: And you know, what's funny is I asked job seekers every job seeker I'm on the streets all the time. I asked them and I said, why do you attract the different things I have or a different staffing firm? And they tell me, and now hiring with all the job description on it. You'll see it over Facebook. No legs just sit there.

Richard Rosner: I mean, we gotta be different. And I think the big thing. I want the job seeker to be wanted. That's the way we want the job seeker to come in and be engaged. And it's a simple role. We, and I, want to talk about this a little later. It's like a trailer on Netflix. John, when I put a caption of a video, I think I'm watching a movie and why should I engage in that 15 to 20 seconds?

Richard Rosner: That's how we have to have that mindset. 

John Ruffini: Got to sell the dream. You know, you've always been big on this, about talking about job postings, too many of them still read like job descriptions and it's they don't even get them, they don't even get looked at by people. Don't finish reading, you've got to sell the dream.

John Ruffini: Don't tell me what's required. You know, if I'm applying to the job, hopefully I kind of know what's required. You've got to tell me why I should do what I'm going to do at your company versus somewhere else? You know, it's gotta be that engagement. It's gotta be that storytelling, if you will. Huge difference again, that's one of the evolutions in our business.

John Ruffini: It's all about selling the dream and figuring out does that dream, you know, solve a situation for your candidate? You know, we've gotta be storytellers. 

Richard Rosner: We have to video as the way of the future is if anybody says, no, it is the wave of the future video content is amazing. And I think you don't even have to put jobs out there if it's hiring madness, or if it's like basketball or football, just put something out there next week.

Richard Rosner: I'll be putting Groundhog day out there. You'll get it from that. And that makes people feel like you're just a real person. And that's what it's all about. You know, they don't want you to be this one where it's just, I got a job for you and you're using me. And I think a lot of job seekers I've asked them.

Richard Rosner: And they said, when I worked for a staffing firm, I feel like I'm just there to make them money. And if we talk, I have to explain to them that no, we're there to benefit you to get you hired on full-time 

John Ruffini: correct. There's that authenticity and to those candidates and that, you know, every time you post something, you get a candidate who comes back and says, yeah, you know, recruiter goes to me, recruiter never called me back, et cetera.

John Ruffini: My response. I feel awful when that happens, because it gives our industry a really bad reputation, but it's also an opportunity. Would I tell those candidates? I'm like, then if that's what happened, then you had the wrong recruiter. Don't give up on the industry, give up on that recruiter, find a recruiter that you're going to work with, and who's going to value you and listen to you.

John Ruffini: And, oh, by the way, if the recruiter doesn't have any opportunities that fall in line with what you're looking for, then the recruiter should tell the person they don't have anything and why they don't have it. And the candidates got to be okay with that too, because we can't place everybody. Just like everybody we meet, we can't put in a job for whatever reason.

John Ruffini: We're a little bit of a victim of the market. And sometimes it's an education. We have to educate the candidate on how things operate for us as recruiters so that they understand it. But it's that communication. And all too often, the recruiter doesn't want to have that conversation or doesn't want to waste their time because they can't make money off that candidate.

John Ruffini: And if you're a candidate, that's not who you want to be working with, find another recruiter. 

Richard Rosner: And if you have that mindset look out, you're in your,

Richard Rosner: The hiring opportunity, but you haven't where they want to get hired. Now it's like you're talking to them. And I think that's the big thing we have to be almost like we're up on a podium. Why should they engage with us? And I think in this day and age, the biggest thing that I see that we have to step up on is our posts.

Richard Rosner: They have to be very engaging and that's, you know, and I really mean that. I mean, you know, take pictures of your candidates and we'll talk about that a little later makes them fun. Things have Superman flying in the air as they get hired. I mean, you gotta make it fun. And when you make it fun, people're gonna come.

John Ruffini: It's all about, know, can you know, how creative can you be? You know, and how can you be different? You've got to differentiate yourself, ultimately. The success you have in the service you deliver in the level at which you deliver it, that's going to be what the client, what the candidate or client embraces and likes.

John Ruffini: And like, you know, they're going to adapt to you, the recruiter. So be your authentic self. Again, what you think you're talking about. If that is your nature, then by all means, do it just be yourself. And we're at a point now where, gosh, you look at social media, even, you know, LinkedIn, which is a traditional professional business networking site.

John Ruffini: There's some things that are out there now that are much more casual than there would have been even three years ago. And it's okay. You know, people are just being their authentic self and it's a challenge and you're right. You need to not just put text out there. You gotta put pictures, you gotta put video, you gotta mix it up, have a little fun with it because candidates, you know, you'll attract a different type of candidate by doing that.

Richard Rosner: Exactly. And one thing I want to say is positive mindset and all your postings through that positive mindset, you know, and they'll be scared to keep throwing it out there. The content, I always say this, John, and I really want to sum this up. It doesn't matter how many likes you have. You know, if you get 3000 likes on a Facebook page or LinkedIn post and you get these followers, there's one thing, Gary Vaynerchuk says it up, engage if I have two likes and both of them are engaged with me. I'm way ahead of somebody who has 3000 likes and no engagement. 

John Ruffini: When you put content. Anywhere on any media platform, do it because you want to share that content. Don't do it because you're looking for people to like it and share it.

John Ruffini: You do it because you have something to share and don't get caught up in how popular your posts are. Just be your authentic self. You know, that your authentic passion will come through and you'll get the following that you want because they will embrace you. But to your point, yeah, it's not about the quantity necessarily its the quality.

Richard Rosner: Exactly and post on all social media sites. We're going to jump into this right now with Tik Tok, Instagram, Facebook. I know so many recruits just rely on LinkedIn. Here's all the platforms. These days, you can find candidates everywhere. I talk to gen Zs all the time and they're on Tik ToK. They're on Instagram.

Richard Rosner: Make it fun. You can find candidates there. You don't have

John Ruffini: I found candidates on Pinterest for crying out loud. They are everywhere. And you've got to, you've got to identify and kind of learn your candidate base to find out which platforms and which groups within those platforms that they frequent most, because it's not a one size fits all.

Richard Rosner: No, and you put different posts. What do my posts on Instagram? You might not post on a LinkedIn. So, you know, you got to know when to put different content at different times. I'm a firm believer, you know, certain people say certain times, I think all should get the content out there and you're getting a message across anytime.

John Ruffini: I agree, get it out there because based on how all these algorithms operate, you might put something out there and someone's going to get it three days from now. And they're not necessarily going to get it. If I post it at five o'clock in the evening Eastern time, it doesn't mean that they're going to see it right then and there, you don't know when it's going to get out there and like you I've attended these webinars. I've studied to see all right, what time do I post on this platform? What time do I post on that platform? At the end of the day, I've tried and experimented. Sometimes there's an advantage to some, but in general, to your point, if you got something to put out there, just put it out there.

Richard Rosner: Put out there, but use it the strategic way, hashtags something we need to talk about.

Richard Rosner: I don't think enough recruiters and study firms use the hashtags the right way. You've got a deep penetration into the hashtags. If we ever go into certain areas, hashtag that. I mean, if it's a video and you're having fun, you don't have to put jobs and careers and staff, you know, all the time. But what fun, you know, motivational put, put that hashtag at that.

Richard Rosner: So you're going to different population joints. You know what I mean? So if you put a video of basketball and you hashtag basketball, you're getting basketball fans and I'll look at that and resonate with your logo. I always keep your logo somewhere on the picture. Once that. You're still going to get a crowd of basketball players, people that need jobs. See what I mean? 

John Ruffini: Well, yeah. Then you're going down. When you say your logo on every post, then you're going to be going down a whole nother topic about branding and the fact that, you know, when you do that, you need a consistent brand. You've got to be, you know, sending that same branding message regardless so that people recognize you as, okay, this person does this.

John Ruffini: Versus if I'm 10 different people on 10 different platforms, that's going to dilute my brand. So I've got to have some level of consistency so that people recognize like, again, I'll use you as an example. Everybody knows you as the shark. I mean, you have been very diligent, no matter what platform, whether it's Twitter, YouTube, LinkedIn, Facebook, you are the staffing shark.

John Ruffini: And you've worked hard to promote that brand, but it's consistent if you had only done that on one platform, but not on others, then there's so much of an audience that you're not engaging with because they don't know you. And what and what you do. 

Richard Rosner: It's one thing we'll just tire as we're jumping around a little bit, but that's okay.

Richard Rosner: Is that you have to have yourself a tagline to make yourself different. To be honest, nobody really cared who Richard Rosner was as a recruiter, but the job agent Staffing Shark gets me to a different level. And if you see my site, I'm sitting on a beach with sunglasses recruiting, you might laugh and think it's corny or fun, but that's me, you know, I'm a shark because I never sleep.

Richard Rosner: I'm always on the hunt. I drink my Shark beer. I can't make that up. That's my tag game. I have a couple of friends out there. One is the red head recruiter. We tagged her for that. I mean, she's rocking it out with that tag name. I think that separates you from just the regular person. Just be yourself. If you don't want a tag name, that's okay.

Richard Rosner: But just be yourself. Because at the end of the day, this is all about attracting talent, but you've got to do it your way. 

John Ruffini: Well, and again, be yourself. Be your authentic self now more than ever in our line of business in recruiting and staffing. I think in life in general authenticity, So important and the candidates and the clients are going to work with you because of who you are.

John Ruffini: Not necessarily because of the company you work for. I preach that all the time with recruiters, I train, they're going to, they're going to be attracted to you. You just happened to work for our company, but they're going to bond with you. So that's what you have to be focused on. So be yourself. 

Richard Rosner: Exactly. Now I think a big thing is when you post people, don't post on a Holidays, posts on Holidays, post on events like Groundhog day, post on St. Patrick's Day. Last year, Joe and I had the, at the leprechaun gets, you hired had seven candidates in like seven minutes of a corny video. I mean, really who wants to get hurt by the leprechaun?

Richard Rosner: Everybody does, right? Things like that makes you sound fun, engaging, and guess what? When they come into your office or wherever you meet. They're going to bring a friend with them or a, Hey, I want to have somebody else join me because this is a fun experience that I've never had before. This is not where you just come in, hand him a piece of papers that you're getting hired for.

Richard Rosner: This is more like, wow, I can actually talk to you. Like, you're my friend now. 

John Ruffini: It's, you know, and by doing the videos that you do so well you're creating a shareable experience too, because what do people do when they find something on Tik Tok that they like, they share it and, oh, you gotta see this and, oh, you got to see that.

John Ruffini: And by doing that again, you're branding yourself and you're getting a wider audience because you're just being you're being yourself and you're having fun with it. And you're letting people know that, Hey, it might be stressful in that right now in, in the employment community. And there might be, you know, the jobless rate continuing to go up because there's so many unfilled jobs, but Hey, you know what, we're going to continue.

John Ruffini: We're going to focus on serving the public and serving the people and serving the companies. And we're going to have fun while we're doing it, because if you don't. What's the point?

Richard Rosner: Exactly. You know, local high school. If your high school went to a playoff game, throw something out there and graduate them with a graphic and then hashtag it.

Richard Rosner: Now you've got all the little school districts rolling a rock and rolling with you. So it's good times. 

John Ruffini: Yep. Agreed. 

Richard Rosner: So now, John, this is one because I'm a football coach. If nobody knows out there, the player coach method, I love this method. I really believe in this, every time I talk to a candidate on the coach, they're the player.

Richard Rosner: Together we win. Well, we get you hard. We do a fist pump. Now she will talk about that a little later about the picture I do all the time, but it feels like they scored a touchdown. So when you have the player, coach method, they're not going to just re-upped you or make you upset. They're going to work hard for you.

John Ruffini: They are, and they have to understand that the recruiter has to understand that they have to let the candidate know that first placement that's not the end. That's the beginning. You have to look at it as a beginning because it's not just about that first contract. It's about, okay, will this turn into a permanent job for that person if they want it, or if not, how many more times can I extend that contract or redeploy that person?

John Ruffini: I want them with me for the duration. I don't want them to ever go into any other recruiter. So I've got to keep that excitement and keep that relationship. But that's up to the recruiter to do that. We can't expect the candidate to do that. And we also have to be, you know, we're not, we can't be naive in the sense that just because we have placed them on an assignment, doesn't mean that every other recruiter stops calling them.

John Ruffini: So you've got to protect that asset for sure, exactly. To your football analogy. I don't want anybody trading my players. 

Richard Rosner: No, one's throwing my TV, they signed a lifetime contract with me, you know,

Richard Rosner: But all joking aside, it's about communication to be successful too. I would call it like the chalk talk is like, you know what. Her mouth. And I feel like if we treat every candidate like a player, you plug and play them, you know, which ones to put in which ones have to sit on a bench for awhile.

Richard Rosner: And if you use that strategy and you have like 50 or a 100 on your team, I mean, you'll never run out of candidates. 

John Ruffini: To your point. You said this earlier. And our mindset always has to be that way candidates are everywhere. And you know, our job is not easy. I always say recruiting in and of itself from A to Z.

John Ruffini: It's not a rocket science vote. And, but you have to work extremely hard at it to be successful and you have to be committed to it. And to the point of this presentation, you have to be excited. You have to want to engage and you have to want to embrace the fact of being an employer. When you have contract employees on your payroll, but you've got to embrace that and you've got to move forward with it.

John Ruffini: And people have to know that you're in it for the long run. 

Richard Rosner: Exactly and I think one of the big things John is here is you've got to prep the candidate for hiring. I mean, you know, I actually go before some, you don't have this, but I have videos out there where some of the candidates I go and I prep them in a parking lot before they go in and go for the interview.

John Ruffini: You have to, oh my gosh, you said a candidate.

John Ruffini: You send a candidate in cold to an interview, shame on you. But that also comes as a recruiter. You better understand and know the person that they're going to interview with. And then you better help them learn about that company and be ready for certain questions that, you know, role play those questions with them.

John Ruffini: That's an area of the process where the recruiter can make a huge impact on a candidate and really set themselves apart from other recruiters. Because if you go in there and you prepare them, that's that, those prep calls, they're not quick onesy twosy calls that's a session that's really consultative.

John Ruffini: That's, role-playing an interview with them that see where they're strong and where they're weak to position them better. In the face of that client to help them maximize their chance to forget and the job. Yeah. If all you're doing is saying, here's the person's name, here's the phone number, or here's the address?

John Ruffini: Call me when you're done, shame on you. Because candidates are going in cold.

Richard Rosner: If you go in with a positive mindset, you can turn your skills into something else where they're going to hire you. I really believe that. And people can see if you have swag or if you have confidence. And if you're looking down and I always tell people in an interview, ask a couple of questions, just personal ones.

Richard Rosner: I mean, it's okay. There's no wrong answers. The wrong answers. You're not saying anything. 

John Ruffini: Right, right. Yeah. How about at the end of the interview? Do you have any questions? No. Okay. No. Yeah. Yeah. You have questions 

Richard Rosner: and you have to teach them the follow up and say, you know, we also say, thank you, but they have to say thank you to sometimes, you know, go in and say, thank you for the interview and all that stuff.

Richard Rosner: I mean, we're representing them, but there's tons for direct hires that they're, you know, I say, Hey candidate, here's the email, send him something. 

John Ruffini: Yeah. Yeah. The follow-up communication. And again, email is more than acceptable. The days of the handwritten note, if you want to do that's fine, but it's not necessary.

John Ruffini: An email is more than acceptable, but if I go to a company and I interview three different people on the same day, then I need to send a follow up. Thank you, communications to three different people. And guess what? It can't be the same. I've got to highlight certain points of their conversation that I had with each individual to stand out.

John Ruffini: Hey, I enjoyed it, and we talked about this, Hey, based on what you share with me, this is why I want to join your team. Hey, I really enjoyed our conversation about XYZ and because if they compare and they see that all of them, all of them got the same email, thank you from you. It's a form letter that looks bad upon you.

John Ruffini: But again, as a recruiter, that's part of the engagement that we have with the candidate to kind of coach them through the process, because that might not be intuitive to everybody 

John Ruffini: or job agent John.

Richard Rosner: Job agent, sorry, Richard. 

Richard Rosner: Oh seven, man. So we're going to go to the park. They get the job they're employed for, right?

Richard Rosner: So what happens after that? Do we just let them go and say goodbye and collect our commissions and see, ya know, you always got to follow up. I'm a firm believer with this, even if they get a direct hire. Check on him once in a while, you don't know, they might quit that job down the road. I'm always a firm believer once you're connected with me, you're always connected with it.

Richard Rosner: You're stuck with me no matter what 

John Ruffini: have to be, because again, that's the beginning of the relationship to your point, Richard, I spent the majority of my recruiting career when I was on a desk doing direct hire in professional line staffing. And when I would place someone minimum during their two week notice, I would take them to lunch.

John Ruffini: I would make sure I stayed in touch with them when they started their job. I'm calling them on day one. I'm calling them at the end of each week. In the first month, I call them at the end of each month through month six, and then I call them a year later. To see how it's going. I call them on their birthday.

John Ruffini: I send them a card. You do all that kind of stuff. Because as a recruiter, as a job agent, you have to maintain and you have to be proactive about maintaining that communication. We can't expect that the candidate is going to do so with us or even remember us. We'd all like to think we're memorable, but it's up to us to stay memorable and be indelible if you will.

John Ruffini: And you do that by staying in front of your candidate, even after you've placed them. Because again, that candidate down the road is a referral source for a hiring manager, wants to make another move. And the only way that they're going to still stay with you is if you've made the effort to stay in touch with them.

Richard Rosner: And there would have been a referral thing. And I, this really bugs me at times. John, how do you ask somebody for a referral when you haven't done anything for them? You know, you haven't got them a job. Hey, can you bring more people in? I really believe that giving equals growth, getting them hired first, but asking for referrals in the right way.

Richard Rosner: I mean, there's certain ways you can ask somebody for a referral, you know, and I'm going to throw this out there, jump me for, even start my famous way to refer people in. I'm going to tell you this. You don't have to spend any money, everything I'm talking about today, that's how much it costs me on my part.

Richard Rosner: It has maybe a couple of blogs here and there to take a picture with that candidate. Give them a picture. I call it the Harvey handshake or your logo on it. Ask them if it looks good, they put it on their profile. Guess what? You got referrals. You don't have to ever ask for a referral because they have that picture of them getting hired.

Richard Rosner: My big slogan. How is you? Can't stop the hiring. You know, it is, I mean, seriously and it just gets contagious. I mean, free note I seen Joe or Samantha got a job. Can you give me one too? And I never see this in the industry now. It's always like the candidate by themselves holding up a check. I got. No, you gotta beat it too.

Richard Rosner: Teamwork equals hired when you're in it, they're going to see you and say shark, John, whoever. Well, that's the guy I need to talk to because he's going to get me a job. 

John Ruffini: You're your best PR communication should be your candidates and they should want to help you if you've done them, right. They should want to help you build your network.

John Ruffini: And I'll also say this Richard, on that, on the, you know, again, focus on the candidate first, before you source referrals. I totally agree with that. Even the candidates that you are unable to help in your, in their career, unable to place. If you treat every candidate with the same level of respect and professionalism, even if you can't place them, they will still be an advocate for you because they know whether or not you're shortchanging them.

John Ruffini: You know, if they talk to their friend, oh, Richard spent an hour talking with me and the guy. And then I say, well, gosh, you only spent 10 minutes with me. Didn't place me placed you now. I see how you work. No, I would spend, and I recommend people. You treat everybody the same way, because you never know who they know.

John Ruffini: You never know where they're going to end up. And at the end of the day, everybody deserves that level of respect. So if you do that, it can only help you. 

Richard Rosner: It's only right. And when you get somebody hard, celebrate with him, give him a fist pump, take that picture. Trust me, you should be as happy as they are.

Richard Rosner: I'm not going to lie to you. And I still do a dance, man. I'm going to tell you what the short dance is. But every time I get somebody hired, I just do a fist pump, but I'm more excited than they are sometimes, but 

John Ruffini: that's when they put on your head, when you dance, 

Richard Rosner: It's like dancing. Seriously. That's when you get excited and they're excited too.

Richard Rosner: You're bringing that excitement out that they might never have before. And I really believe this, you know, I've hired so many people that they say, well, I've never felt as experienced before. And this job is not what I had before, but you're making me feel special. And I think that's the biggest thing.

Richard Rosner: We have to talk about making somebody feel wanted and special. We'll keep them overtake them. They'll never ghost you. If you keep that way, you know, you gotta keep them happy. 

John Ruffini: I agree. I agree. You got it. It makes it, you know, again, each candidate you speak with has to feel like they are the most important thing.

John Ruffini: And in that moment they should be, you know, we shouldn't be talking to someone and thinking about someone else, be in the moment, be an active listener, pay attention to what your candidates are telling you. Because if we do our job right as recruiters and job agents and staffers, your candidates will tell you everything you need to know about virtually everything in the market, you know, but that's why that's where the relationships come from.

Richard Rosner: Exactly. And hold them accountable for mine in the light industry, once a week, they check in with me. And they have to check in by Thursday. It's almost like a football coach. It's as if they're checking in before they go to bed, but you know what, if they need a day off, if they're going through some trouble, they'll let me know instead of just not showing up for work.

Richard Rosner: And that's the biggest thing is I rather them, I say, if you need a day off, don't be scared. Texted me at like two in the morning because I'll tell the, you know, the company that you're going to be off today. And I think that's the biggest thing that we're missing is that communication.

John Ruffini: Well, and there, it gets back to your whole theme of engagement, right?

John Ruffini: And they've got to trust you enough. You've got, you've given them that freedom to be vulnerable and it's okay if you get sick, it's okay. If you can't show up for work, just let me know. I don't want to get a call from the company. Saying you didn't come into work today. You've got to let me know so that I can help preserve your opportunity and work with you.

John Ruffini: It's that whole, you know, partnership player, coach type of thing. Absolutely. And hopefully, and I assume that you do this very well. Hopefully you've set that expectation from the get-go as far as, Hey, here's how we can work together and help each other out. And here's what I expect of you. And here's what you should expect of me.

John Ruffini: Are we on the same page and moving forward, if you set those expectations early, you tend to have more success. If you don't talk about it, that's where it's a little bit wild. 

Richard Rosner: Totally agree, fully agree. But one thing that I always say is before they go to the interview with you or whatever, the first initiation, you gotta text them in the morning, say or call them and say, Hey, can't wait to see you at 10 o'clock.

Richard Rosner: I think a lot of times we set the appointment up on Monday. We don't talk to them until Thursday. They never show their ghosts. I'm going to tell you if you do that and hold him accountable or texted him the night before and say, I can't wait to see you at eight o'clock in the morning. I'm really excited about helping you out.

Richard Rosner: Put that excitement in there. Put them in cute little words. I'm excited. They text you right back. Boom, boom. Hey, I can't wait to meet you too. There it is. 

John Ruffini: You know, that, that transparent communication to your point, that excitement, you know, in any line of business, but especially ours, you've got to bring that enthusiasm every day.

John Ruffini: And everybody's got to feel it from you. They've got to know that, wow. You know what, whenever I talk to that they always got the high energy. They're always positive. They're not focusing on the negative. They're finding, you know, the silver lining in everything through adversity.

John Ruffini: I forget, I'm forgetting your phrases already, but you know, through adversity will come something good. You say it much better. You've got your catch phrases, but they have to know that they've got to, you know, if you bring that to the table and you're always positive and you're genuine and wanting to work with them and help them, then they will want to call you.

John Ruffini: And you'll be the person that, oh, I had a bad day at work. Who do I talk to? Well, let me call Richard and just vent because Richard will listen to me. That's where you become more than just the person that has access to jobs. 

Richard Rosner: Well, yeah we're like their social workers slash coach is what I call. You can call yourself whatever you want, but 

John Ruffini: psychiatrist, counselor.

Richard Rosner: And I always tell people, I tell all my workers, you know what? Because we're part of a family. Take some time. And John, guess what? I call it time, mental excitement. That's done for yourself. Mental excitement. That's my new tagline. I tell people.

John Ruffini: That's your calling dude.

Richard Rosner: But know that excitement. And I tell them, take a mental excitement day.

Richard Rosner: If you worked for three months, I'll tell them you can't come into more, take a mental excitement day seriously, and just do something, go kayaking or whatever you want to do. And I really believe giving people time off really helps. 

John Ruffini: You know, there's so many people that are experiencing burnout and COVID, hasn't helped if you've been working from home, you're experiencing Groundhog day.

John Ruffini: You know, if you're on the front lines in any type of healthcare, you're fried beyond belief and as employers and as recruiters, we have to be empathetic and we have to. Again, to your point earlier, you might be talking to someone and then they might have a little bit of an edge. You have to seek first to understand you have no idea what kind of day that person's had or what they're going through personally.

John Ruffini: Don't judge, try and get to know and you know, and be empathetic to it. But yeah, everybody needs that balance. You can't just there's too much stress in the world and too much burnout going on. Too many things that people are worried about. So it can't be all work and no play,

Richard Rosner: Honestly, all that stuff. When I found out about work, you wanted to tap into their family, right? So one thing why give referral money out what's referral money. Do they just spend it? Why not buy them Netflix, Hulu for the year, or get them groceries where they can go on the app and order like $200 worth of groceries.

Richard Rosner: Love that one month. Guess what? Next time they watch Netflix. It's only $17. They're going to turn every station on with their kids. Everything is going to think of the Staffing Shark. Wow. You bought this for a whole year for me.

John Ruffini: I think that's part of the creativity that you have to have as a recruiter.

John Ruffini: What can I do? That might be different and you're right. Money's great. But what do they need? What could they use? What's important to them is finding those, giving them options. Hey, for your referral bonus, you got a choice. You can do this or this, which would you like? So it's not one size fits all. I love that creativity thinking outside the box 

Richard Rosner: And you have to be creative on everything you're gonna have with this.

Richard Rosner: I'm gonna show everybody out there. This is a, I don't know if you can see it or not. It's still a paper. And it says Kuvan with the Savage 3000 rolls. I gave away major hits on that. So just being creative, like that, costs me pretty much peanuts to get people in the door. So I can say you gotta be on the streets.

Richard Rosner: You gotta be more active these days. That stuff is sitting in the office, clicking on job boards has gone away. And I think as we wrap up down here in the next 10 minutes, that's seriously, we have to really think about that, Joanne, that the job boards, or like a surfboard, you know, you could only write it so long.

Richard Rosner: You got to find some other avenue.

John Ruffini: Agreed and, you know, so much has gone social. And again, as part of the theme to this presentation, it's all about engagement. It's not about putting out there what I'm recruiting for. It's about engaging in the conversation. Responding to people that comment on your posts, it's about sharing information that you think will benefit the masses.

John Ruffini: So to speak. It's about finding people that you want to connect with, looking at their posts and joining in the conversation with the people that they have following them. Social is all about engagement. It's not so much about what I want to take from that platform. What can I give that platform?

John Ruffini: And if you give enough, it will come back and you will reap the rewards from it. But too many people still think that social platforms are like job boards. I'll just put what I'm recruiting for. And people will come to me. It doesn't work that way. 

Richard Rosner: Exactly. And I think social media platforms get a bad name.

Richard Rosner: I mean, for light industrial, I love Facebook. If you use it the right way. I think the big thing is you just can't post it on a job board with everybody else that does it. No job seekers look at the job boards. Mostly they look at different things, mostly in a quad site or a flea market site, ask for permission and throw some stuff out there.

Richard Rosner: I mean, I think you gotta be creative like you do.

John Ruffini: How many times. For anyone on the call and put in the chat, if this has happened to you. So I've been on LinkedIn for a long time. How many times do you get an invitation to connect from someone? You look at their background, you say, all right, that's a connection I want to have.

John Ruffini: So you accept the connection and immediately you get an InMail selling you something they know nothing about you. And, you know, here comes the sales pitch and it's really long. And I'm like, okay, now again, then the next question is, what do you do with that? Do you know, cut your ties with them. I'm kind of anal retentive.

John Ruffini: I usually reply to them and I express, you know, Hey, why don't you get to know me first to figure out if your solution is even worthwhile to what we do or I'll ask them how much, you know, you're selling me something, what do you know about my business? And I will challenge them. So that hopefully they stop just blind selling it's ridiculous.

John Ruffini: But again, those are people that aren't out to build relationships. They're treating it like a transaction that's going to hurt them. 

Richard Rosner: Exactly and some other marketing tips that I love marketing tips. Marketing tips are coasters with a, you know, your logo on it get hired at different could be the Elks, the moose, a lot of people, you know, it works.

Richard Rosner: Trust me, I've tried it before, too, that works. There's so many different avenues you can do that. Know, that, know, the gyms, LA fitness, and we'll let you drop off stuff there. You know, like a little flyer or something like that, be creative and just don't use ourselves as an appointment center.

Richard Rosner: We're more than that. We're just here to help everybody find employment this year and every year beyond.

John Ruffini: Yep. Leah just said something in the comments that I've got to praise her on because I agree with her a hundred percent, she said, earn the right to ask. And I've always had that philosophy, you know, with candidates as a recruiter, I've always approached.

John Ruffini: It is I have to earn the right to present opportunities to that candidate. Because if I don't understand that candidate first, then how can I possibly suggest a job for them to consider? So I totally agree with you, Leah. Thanks for saying that. 

Richard Rosner: I'm going to see some other stuff, Tammy, on there, you know, said, why don't we just say hi before we sell ourselves?

Richard Rosner: Oh, can we just be friends? 

John Ruffini: Yeah. Try getting to know the person first before you, so before you drop the sales pitch. Oh my gosh. 

Richard Rosner: Entails into the text messages. I'm a firm believer. Yeah. I love using all the text apps, but there's times that sometimes you just gotta do a personalized one and make it short and sweet.

Richard Rosner: Instead of just saying, we have a job for, you know, 9 95, you know, we gotta make it personalized. And I really think people can see through that. If it's not, if it's just a random text. 

John Ruffini: In today's day and age, if you are reaching out to a candidate that you've never had interaction with before, and it's your first outreach, the more you can personalize that so that they know that it's them you're reaching out to and them alone, and they understand why you're reaching out to them specifically, the better your chances are for engaging and having a conversation.

John Ruffini: You can't just mass blast a message out there to, you know, a thousand people and see what happens. It just doesn't work that way anymore. People come into that real quick. 

Richard Rosner: Exactly one thing I'm gonna say about job descriptions. The key thing is, and I swear, I love job scripts. We've got to make them simple these days, John.

Richard Rosner: And I think that's part of the engagement, you know, that we have to make it real simple. The first thing I put is the text engineer, my phone number, boom, you don't have any texts. I get it. It says engineer. Now, guess what? They're texting me now. I'm starting to have a conversation before I even get him on the phone.

Richard Rosner: You know what I mean? Sink it, hook just like that. And I really believe that so many people put so many job descriptions like, you know, if you have a good work ethic, you better, right. I mean, that's taken up the whole space that nobody's gonna read all that because we're all hypertension these days.

Richard Rosner: So 

John Ruffini: Think of how our industry evolves Richard things. You're saying now, again, people weren't doing that. I'm not going to say 10 years ago. They weren't doing it five years ago. It's you know, again, it evolves. Think about how the resumes evolved. You know, the objective statement went out the window a long time ago because your objective is to get the job you're applying for.

John Ruffini: So find something better to fill that space with then a generic objective statement, because that's not going to be, you know, not going anywhere nowadays, some companies don't even want a resume. They're going to look at your LinkedIn profile or they're going to look at something online. That's, you electronic they're not going to want you to send a resume.

John Ruffini: So it's all about adapting and engaging. 

Richard Rosner: You're totally right on it. The resume, the black and white resume. I'm a firm believer. I do video resumes. I love it. Two minutes PowerPoint at the end, why they should be hired and ship it off to the manager. A lot of people might say no way, but just think of their home with their family, the hiring manager.

Richard Rosner: And they can just click on a link with a man and a half. They can listen to it. We're gonna have to read the resume when they go to work, it's a great union. And I think it's the wave of the future. The video resumes and people love it. Believe it or not. Job seekers love it. When you have a hiring event, which I love at job parties, I tell people, I joke with it.

Richard Rosner: Instead of having a job fair, let's have a job party with music and zoom, and I can teach you all how to do this. It's great. It's free. And people love this. Guess what? Get 10 job seekers on, or you have a job party. They get to know each other. Guess what? They share each other's information. Now they feel like it's a community.

Richard Rosner: See, they all want it. Family, you're building a tribe and a family. That's what they always say. 

John Ruffini: Well said Well said. I love it. 

Richard Rosner: Good stuff like that. It's simple things that you don't have to actually spend money on. I mean, the technology is so robust out there. I really think one thing John wants to wrap up with is the app.

Richard Rosner: I think that everybody should have an app on their phone, that they can do the online and onboarding on their phone because 90% of the people that I've talked to their dont have stuff on their phone, they're not even on a computer. 

John Ruffini: It's got it. You know, as our industry continues to evolve and technology continues to evolve, you and I have talked about this at length.

John Ruffini: One thing that we're going to see is if you're a staffing organization and you don't have an app, especially if you do contract staffing where it's easy for your candidates, Interface engage, find jobs, apply to jobs, the whole process from application to placement right on their phone. Not having to go through page after page and click after click, we've got to make it easy for candidates.

John Ruffini: And everybody's got one of these. So we've got to cater to that because that's where we are and that's where we're headed. 

Richard Rosner: Exactly. And we've got to make it simple too. It's going to be user-friendly. I mean, you're like blind, so we have to make it where people can see big thoughts.

Richard Rosner: The biggest thing on the apps, you want to have your logo on it, because just think you got planet fitness, and then you have the app of whatever company you work for. They're going to remember that. And when they're out at a picnic, they're going to say, what's that company, you know, and boom, there you are.

Richard Rosner: Then you've got branding and you also got referrals. 

John Ruffini: And even if you, even if you don't develop your own app, I mean, so many apps that are servicing our industry, you know, they're white labeled, they'll put your brand on it. So it is your app. It's just coming from someone who's already done the work for you. So you don't have to develop it from scratch.

Richard Rosner: Yeah. I mean, there's so many different changing tones. One thing I think John and I, we got a couple of minutes is there's one app it's actually the bot. Every time you go to the bots there, 24/7 asking questions. So two in the morning, if you're looking for a job or if I'm up trying to write content, I'm thinking the same thing, boom, the boss starts talking to me and if I'm up, I can see that person.

Richard Rosner: I can actually start chatting live if I want to. Is that amazing? What's 24/7 now? 

John Ruffini: It is amazing. And what's fun to me is finding all the parts of the business that can and should be automated, which will free us up to recruit. And not do as much of the back office administrative stuff that nobody likes to do.

John Ruffini: We create it, frees us up to actually meet candidates and meet clients and forge those relationships. And a lot of the follow-up communication that can be automated. It's never going to take the place we, you and I are both from believers. Ours is a relationship business. You're never going to take the place of a recruiter, but you can automate parts of the recruiting process that will free you up to do the more personal style type personal aspects of the job.

John Ruffini: So 

Richard Rosner: I bought the high C that's a human connection, man. That's what it's all about. You know, Hi-C recruiting, I call it, you know, one of the things John, I want to everybody out there, the weekends, I have to say this, the weekends are probably one of the best times to recruit from 10 o'clock to noon on Saturday.

Richard Rosner: I recommend everybody recruiting that way, because guess what? Everybody's home. Usually on a Saturday, you're having fun. You know, you're off people that actually are looking for a job that worked during the week. They're open. Give it a shot. Sometimes I'm not asking you to do it every weekend, but give it a shot.

Richard Rosner: And out of 10 calls, I bet you get eight people on the phone. 

John Ruffini: Got to try it. The accessible we're coming up on our time.

Richard Rosner: We are men. We can talk for like four hours here. I'll tell you what man. There's so much to do just take in here. I just hope everybody enjoyed this. I mean, there's so much more just, all I can say is reach out to both of us.

Richard Rosner: I'm going to throw this out there. Join your free zoom link. Come on our podcast. As a guest, we want to bring you out there. We want to put everybody out there for exposure. So come on to recruiters with no limits podcast. Just reach out to me or John. I'm always here for a staffing chat. I call it brainstorming with the shark.

Richard Rosner: Let's have a chat for 20 minutes, 30 minutes. I'll electrify you. You're probably like holy cow, but we'll just have fun with it because I think this whole industry is about connecting with each other.

John Ruffini: And Richard and I both are here to be advocates and to serve those of us. That is in this industry because we are passionate about it and we believe in it and anything we can do to help people be better at what they do.

John Ruffini: That's our mission, man. 

Richard Rosner: Remember, you guys are our family. There's no competition in the industry. We're all here to share knowledge and the candidates and everything like that in my eyes. 

John Ruffini: Thanks so much for everybody who tuned in. We appreciate it. 

Richard Rosner: Thank you so much. Take care.